Summary of ECU research

[ScoobyMania]

Thanks. I got a bit confused. What benefits would you get from the GEMS over a standed ECU remap?

The main gains will (obviously) be more power and Torque. This would almost certainly drive better than a simple (I guess you're referring to an Ecutek) remap, We've yet to see a decent "all areas" Ecutek remap, the amount of time to get one right due to the method of re-mapping is simply not conducive to being able to achieve such a comprehensive map given the time constraints.

Faster pick up, as we can bring the cams in earlier, and keep the wastegate fully closed for longer, better fuel consumption usually as well. Functionality wise, you can run ALS and Launch control, (cost extra options on Motec IIRC)?

[WR1 Bro]

In your previous post you mentioned a full decat - in the past the likes of Mike Woods have posted on here explaining that there would be no improvement of a decat over the sports car already fitted. What is your professional opinion on this?

Free flowing filter - do you mean something like a Green Cotton filter?

What decat options do you suggest/recommend?

What is the price of fitting and mapping the GEMS ECU?

[ScoobyMania]

In your previous post you mentioned a full decat - in the past the likes of Mike Woods have posted on here explaining that there would be no improvement of a decat over the sports car already fitted. What is your professional opinion on this?

While a sports cat will offer a noticeable improvement over a "normal" cat, it still presents a noticeable restriction within the exhaust system and will have higher back pressure (which detrimentally affects spool up and overall power).

It is a viable option if you want to remain "legal", but as with so many things, a sports cat is expensive when compared to a simple de-cat system.
Most people take the year long advantage of being completely de-catted, and pay for a cat swap out for the MOT time.

Free flowing filter - do you mean something like a Green Cotton filter? What decat options do you suggest/recommend? What is the price of fitting and mapping the GEMS ECU?

Yes, some are worse than others, we've used K&N and STi panel filters mainly. You need to balance filtratrion level with resistance to air flow.

As for de-cat options, we have our own design systems Full 3" mandrel bent , flowed systems manufactured for us exclusively under license By Milltek.

GEMS fitted and mapped (On the rolling road and then road) for WR1 is

[WR1 Bro]

Thanks for the info...

What would be the implications of keeping a Blitz Nur Spec R as this tapers to 2.5 inch to join to the current cat? Would the exhaust have to be moddified to 3 inch? Also, would this be a no no for mapping as some people say the Blitz is restrictive? My problem, both me and the wife ADORE the Blitz soundtrack.

[ScoobyMania]

Thanks for the info...

What would be the implications of keeping a Blitz Nur Spec R as this tapers to 2.5 inch to join to the current cat? Would the exhaust have to be moddified to 3 inch? Also, would this be a no no for mapping as some people say the Blitz is restrictive? My problem, both me and the wife ADORE the Blitz soundtrack.

Going full de-cat is of course the most advantageous for performance reasons, but at the sort of power levels we're talking here, it would only have a marginal effect overall. If you like the sound of it, I'd recommend keeping it to be honest.

[Anders_WR1]

The replacement ECU's (Motec,link,Hydra,Gems,Apexi) compared to the standard ECU just have a little more control and can react quicker to different circumstances. Motec appears to be the daddy really. They should give you a bit more BHP and torque (maybe 10-15 of each). Some of them have features like dual boost maps, Anti lag, Launch control etc..Because of the quicker reactions of them you can map a little closer to the edge of detonation etc.

Also a MAF based system like o.e will only be good for maybe 450 BHP. After this you need a better ECU.

The downside of them is that some of the competition based ECU's like Gems and Link can make the car a bit obnoxious at tickover and low RPM.

The standard ECU can have dual boost maps and launch control added when you remap. ECUTEK brought out a firmware update that added those two features at no extra cost

[danr55]

tell us more about dual boost ....

[Gazman2054]

tell us more about dual boost ....

And launch control

[WR1 Bro]

tell us more about dual boost ....

Dual boost I believe is having two maps.... One all out war and one less agressive. You can switch between the two depending on what you are doing with the car. Spike would set his to Sunday drive.

[WR1 Bro]

tell us more about dual boost ....

And launch control

I believe this is just an ECU management of revs to control an all out lauch from the lights. I think you just side step off the clutch and the revs are controlled for you by the ECU for maximum programmed launch.

What I would like to know is does the launch control use information from the traction control to determine road conditions etc?

[Gazman2054]

tell us more about dual boost ....

And launch control

I believe this is just an ECU management of revs to control an all out lauch from the lights. I think you just side step off the clutch and the revs are controlled for you by the ECU for maximum programmed launch.

What I would like to know is does the launch control use information from the traction control to determine road conditions etc?

Ummm good point
I think the one on the Ferrari 430 is full revs and press the LC button and it go's on what traction is avalable from the rear wheels (Dry or wet).
I think, Im not 100% sure on this

[danr55]

tell us more about dual boost ....

Dual boost I believe is having two maps.... One all out war and one less agressive. You can switch between the two depending on what you are doing with the car. Spike would set his to Sunday drive.

this sounds useful, so you could possibly have a more economic map for motorway cruising etc. i like that idea

[WR1 Bro]

tell us more about dual boost ....

Dual boost I believe is having two maps.... One all out war and one less agressive. You can switch between the two depending on what you are doing with the car. Spike would set his to Sunday drive.

this sounds useful, so you could possibly have a more economic map for motorway cruising etc. i like that idea

I believe so... but, lets get this confirmed by the techo bods.

[Gazman2054]

tell us more about dual boost ....

Dual boost I believe is having two maps.... One all out war and one less agressive. You can switch between the two depending on what you are doing with the car. Spike would set his to Sunday drive.

this sounds useful, so you could possibly have a more economic map for motorway cruising etc. i like that idea

I believe so... but, lets get this confirmed by the techo bods.

[marky mark]

Pretty certain that the option is just a boost map (or cap) and that fuelling is not affected.

I.e your complete fuel and ignition map will be for your high boost setting, and the switch to the lower setting is only on the boost control map.

You can drive on the motorway at a very good pace anyway without going over 0.5 bar even up a hill, so if you are in petrol saving mode it will not give you any savings.

Launch control on Ecutek i have no idea whatsoever about.

[Anders_WR1]

Mark is right saying that the dual boost maps only effect boost, not ignition or fueling. As it's free, I thougt I'd try it to see if I could save cash on the 70-mile round trip to work every day. It probably doesn't improve much over a well controlled right foot, but if your lazy and don't want to spend brain power trying to balance boost / right foot, then it will make life easier.

You can switch between high / low boost maps when you're driving, which is handy if you're in low boost and someone wants a race

The launch control works like this...There's a secondary rev limit that is activated when your stationary. So when you plant your foot to the floor, the car doesn't bounce of the rev limit, it revs to the secondary limit. The turbo is brought in and boost builds to around 0.7 BAR, although there's no load on the engine. The launch control disables after you reach a preprogrammed speed (mines set to 5mph), so that you can rev around to the full rev limit in first gear after you've launched.

I've only used it once so far, need to fit my Excedy organic or the standard clutch will probably shatter (it's done about 42K).

Anders

Edited to add: I found out about the feature on the ECUTEK forumn. I was reading up about how the ECU's work and this was listed as a new feature, along with the dual maps. Maybe they could add some sort of Antilag if we all asked for it!

[WR1 Bro]

Thanks to Anders and Marky Mark for the info.

[marky mark]

Interesting Anders!

How the hell does the car get to 0.7 bar with no load on though?

[danr55]

great info

[WR 1mposter]

Interesting stuff.

I take it all ecutek mappers will have this update !

[Anders_WR1]

Interesting Anders!

How the hell does the car get to 0.7 bar with no load on though?

I'm guessing the new ECU firmware simulates load. Or it could be the automatic blipping of the throttle that builds the boost up - the revs don't hold steady on the secondary limit, they oscillate by a few hundred rpm (with pops and bangs out of the exhaust ).

Cheers

Anders

[WR 1mposter]

Interesting Anders!

How the hell does the car get to 0.7 bar with no load on though?

I'm guessing the new ECU firmware simulates load. Or it could be the automatic blipping of the throttle that builds the boost up - the revs don't hold steady on the secondary limit, they oscillate by a few hundred rpm



(with pops and bangs out of the exhaust )

Cheers

Anders

I think my remap will be done real soon

[Anders_WR1]

Interesting stuff.

I take it all ecutek mappers will have this update !

If they don't have it, they can ask ECUTEK for it. It won't be very gearbox friendly though, so use it sparingly!

Anders

[Gazman2054]

Mark is right saying that the dual boost maps only effect boost, not ignition or fueling. As it's free, I thougt I'd try it to see if I could save cash on the 70-mile round trip to work every day. It probably doesn't improve much over a well controlled right foot, but if your lazy and don't want to spend brain power trying to balance boost / right foot, then it will make life easier.

You can switch between high / low boost maps when you're driving, which is handy if you're in low boost and someone wants a race

The launch control works like this...There's a secondary rev limit that is activated when your stationary. So when you plant your foot to the floor, the car doesn't bounce of the rev limit, it revs to the secondary limit. The turbo is brought in and boost builds to around 0.7 BAR, although there's no load on the engine. The launch control disables after you reach a preprogrammed speed (mines set to 5mph), so that you can rev around to the full rev limit in first gear after you've launched.

I've only used it once so far, need to fit my Excedy organic or the standard clutch will probably shatter (it's done about 42K).

Anders

Edited to add: I found out about the feature on the ECUTEK forumn. I was reading up about how the ECU's work and this was listed as a new feature, along with the dual maps. Maybe they could add some sort of Antilag if we all asked for it!

I like the sounds of the dual map and launch control
Think we need to find out some prices...
Ummm anti lag that sounds good too...

[marky mark]

I am really interested to find out how the launch control works. If you sit in your car at rest and rev it or blip the throttle i cant see how it can get to 0.7 bar. Its difficult enough to achieve +ve boost at all.

Using ALS is a bit of a no-no with VF turbos!

[WR1 Bro]

What is "VF"?

[marky mark]

VF is the IHI range of turbos generally fitted to Sti variant imprezas.

VF28,VF34,VF35 etc...


Some cut and paste info (although a bit out of date now). I believe WR1 has a VF35?



VF22

This turbo has the highest output potential of all of the IHI VF series turbos and is the best choice for those who are looking for loads of top end power. The top end power however, does not come without a cost. The VF22 spools significantly slower than the rest of the IHI models due to the larger P20 exhaust housing and is much less suited for daily driving than some of the other models. Although the largest VF series turbo, the VF22 is not quite optimal for stroked engines or those who wish to run more than 20PSI of boost.

VF23

This turbo is considered a great all-around turbo. Like the VF22 it utilizes the largest P20 exhaust housing. This housing is mated with a smaller compressor housing of the of the VF24. This turbo is considered optimal in applications with range from mild to slightly wild. It does not have the same top end power of the VF22, but spools up significantly quicker.

VF24

This turbo shares its compressor housing with the VF23 however, this housing is mated with a smaller (P18) exhaust side. The smaller characteristics of this turbo allow it to provide ample bottom end power and quick spool. This turbo is very popular for Imprezas with automatic transmissions and Group N rally cars.

VF28

This turbo came standard on the STi Version 5. In terms of overall size, it is smaller than the VF22, VF30 and VF34, and about same size as the VF23.

VF29

This Turbo is nearly identical to the VF24, with the same compressor and exhaust housings. However the compressor wheel in the VF29 is has been changed slightly. The changes made to the compressor wheel in this model are generally viewed as improvements, and as such this unit is typically chosen over the VF24.

VF30

The VF30 is commonly considered the best bang for the buck turbo in the IHI VF series line. A relatively new model the VF30 features the same exhaust housing as the VF24 but a larger compressor side similar to the VF22. The combination of these two parts results in increased output potential without the lag associated with the VF22. Although it doesn't offer the top end supremacy of the VF22, the VF30 is a great compromise between these unit and the quicker spooling models.

VF34

The VF34 is nearly identical to the VF30, with the same exhaust housing and compressor. However the VF34 goes back to the ball bearing design, and in doing so achieves full boost approximately 500RPM sooner than the comparable VF30. The VF34 is the most recent IHI design and as such costs slightly more than its counterpart. Top end performance and maximum output are identical to the 30.

VF35

VF35 The VF35 has identical internals as the VF30 and it uses divided thrust bearings. However, the exhaust housing is a P15 which means this turbo will have fantastic spool characteristics. This turbo is standard on the new WRX Type RA. LIMITED SUPPLY.

VF36
Roller bearing version of the twin scroll VF37, also has a titanium turbine and shaft for even quicker spool. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however twin scroll P25 exhaust housing provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI Spec C from 2003 onwards.

VF37 (thrust bearing)
Enter the age of twin scroll IHI turbos. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however has a new twin scroll P25 exhaust housing that provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. Twin scroll also provides better spool up for improved low down response over the VF30/34. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI from 2003 onwards.

VF38
Twin scroll turbo with titanium turbine and shaft. Smaller compressor housing than VF36/VF37 provides tremendous spool up capabilities but less top end than VF36/37. The spool capabilities of this turbo are demonstrated on the JDM Legacy GT, which reaches peak torque at 2400RPM.

VF39
Single scroll turbo used on USDM STI and latest 2.5L STIs released internationally. Smaller than VF30/VF34.

VF42
Exclusive turbo to the S203/S204 models, this features a twin scroll design with a slightly larger compressor than the VF36/37 turbos and different turbine design (more blades). The VF42 is a roller-bearing turbo and is likely of similar size to the VF22 turbo, but with twin scroll exhaust housing for faster spool and superior top end performance due to reduced exhaust pulse interference.

[Anders_WR1]

I am really interested to find out how the launch control works. If you sit in your car at rest and rev it or blip the throttle i cant see how it can get to 0.7 bar. Its difficult enough to achieve +ve boost at all.

Using ALS is a bit of a no-no with VF turbos!

The guys at ECUTEK have ultimate control if they write the firmware for the ECU. Couldn't the launch control feature could be programmed to close the wastegate with the engine reving in neutral until a pre-defined boost target is met?

WR1 does have a VF35.

Anders